‘JZ’ Takes Another Crack at Aoki
Apr 27, 2008
Gesias "JZ"
Calvancante and Shinya
Aoki (Pictures) will meet again Tuesday in
Dream's second offering in Saitama, Japan. The two touted
lightweights have already had one bout cancelled and another ruled
a no contest. Sherdog.com spoke with Calvancante on the
controversial March 15 match against Aoki and what could happen
when they battle again.
Martins Denis: The first time I called you for this interview it was 10:00 a.m., and you told me to call back around 10:00 p.m. Twelve hours passed, so did you have a huge training routine throughout the day?
Gesias Calvancante (Pictures): Basically we're in a pace of several trainings into two different periods -- morning and evening -- and every holy day is the same routine. We diversified the style with muay Thai, a ground game and tonight we did a specific punching bag workout. It is always like this, but with variations.
Denis: The question is, doesn't your body feel
fatigued with this routine everyday?
Calvancante: This is a little funny because a few times you get a rest, but it doesn't matter how long it is. You feel a little tired. But, you know, we're in a high-level sport now, so the professionalism of American Top Team is demanding and we're going to our limits to reach the peak in our preparation. This makes us confident on the job because this is working. So we train in the morning, get a rest, go to lunch. Because of that, I told you to call me at the end of the day because we don't have time in the intervals to do other things. Now I'd be sleeping for the following day, but you hung me up. This pace increases when we're close to a fight, and for me this is wonderful because for whoever does what he loves, he's in the right place. To deal with this is easy!
Denis: Since December 2007 you've been on a very uncommon schedule. First you were supposed to fight Shinya Aoki (Pictures) on New Year's Eve, and then the fight was booked for March and then the outcome forced you two to fight again in April. After that, if you win, you'll fight again in a short period of time. How is your preparation with this different situation?
Calvancante: We work over the fight schedule, so our agenda works with whatever changes or we keep it the same. The human being is adaptable. When we see ourselves in a situation like I'm in now, we're capable of changing the first program -- focusing on the strong points and minimizing the possible weaknesses inside this schedule's change. So we're always being evaluated if an unexpected situation arises. And this is not tough because we're working with top fighters and coaches, and the union between us is making the family work for each individual member of ATT and on behalf of the team itself.
Denis: Do these changes also affect the human being Gesias Calvancante (Pictures), not only the fighter? Because I know you like to eat everything you can when you don't have a fight. I remember you around 200 pounds when you didn't fight between October 2006 and June 2007. So how do you deal with your diet when changes happen?
Calvancante: [Laughs] Hey, aren't you exaggerating at saying I weighed 200 pounds? I was overweight but not 200 pounds. But as you said, I like to eat everything, but my mother's food is natural, healthy and delicious. My woman is here with me and she's in the same category as my mother with organic and macrobiotic food. So I don't feel bad for only eating this type of food, like salad, integral beans.
Denis: Since your fight against Aoki in March, you were interviewed several times. Which specific question bothered you most?
Calvancante: Hold on, I need to think. There were a lot of them that bothered me. This always happens. A few times I think people don't think much before asking, but no doubt the questions that bothered me a lot were regarding Aoki. What did I think about what he felt, about what he did? Damn! If you want to know about Aoki, go ask him, not me [laughs]. There are others, but this particular one irritated me. I can't talk as Aoki -- I'm not him and I can't judge him. Ask about me, so I can answer.
Denis: So why did you land an elbow to the back of his head? [Laughs]
Calvancante: Are you kidding me!
Denis: Yep! But what did you hear about this fact?
Calvancante: They asked me why I did elbow him. This was because it was one of my weapons in the Dream rules, so of course I'd land them. Accidents happen. This is the same when someone shoots and you land a knee. In a few cases, the adversary has his knees on the ground and this becomes illegal but not intentional. If I have this opportunity again, I'll do it.
Denis: Were these elbows a new rule for you in Dream?
Calvancante: If I'm not wrong, Hero's had them too.
Denis: We have several different rules in MMA. Particularly each continent has rules. On a lot of occasions, this is a misunderstanding not only for the fans but also for the fighters who don't have the rules clearly in their minds. Do you support the universal rules? What kind?
Calvancante: Talking like a fighter, the universal rules would be better for the sport of MMA. We talk about people who don't understand [very well] and are expecting different rules of a show that they are watching. So one show allows elbows, and others don't. You can stomp in one, and in others you can't. Talking in world's terms of growth of the sport MMA, this is an obstacle. The standard of rules is good for training also because there's no world-class team with all of its fighters in the same promotion. When you're used to fighting in Japan and then have a fight in North America, the styles are different. You can confuse the fight's aspect if you don't prepare properly. But if you focus, I guess you can adapt yourself well.
Denis: Fans said you reduced your traditional aggressive style and changed into a cautious one against Aoki. What do you have to say?
Calvancante: In fact it was, well ? what I did discover, and this was what we said with the team after the fight, was that this was the first time I fought the first round of 10 minutes, so I kept a reasonably slow pace, letting the fight flow. Plus Aoki walked back during the fight, so this harms your strategy because until you reach the combat distance, he's taller than me. It takes time. The ground and pound is different too, when you take a fighter down and when he pulls you into his guard. If I have to fight on the ground, I will. If I have to fight standing and exchanging clinches/grips for takedowns, I will also. The fight was like I wanted, not like he'd like.
Denis: Once the fight hit the ground, you connected with a good punch but didn't keep the pressure. Even though you told me you can fight everywhere, it seemed you didn't want to fight on the ground.
Calvancante: I didn't feel that was the moment to fight on the ground due to the 10-minute round. When I landed that punch, I was careful of an up-kick from him. But when I watched the tape, I realized I could have stayed imposing the ground and pound from that position. But this was only after I saw the fight. Anyway this was in my pace, doing what I wanted.
Denis: You watched the fight and saw when you could keep in his guard, punching. But what about that high kick that missed and he shot for a takedown? Was that a mistake?
Calvancante: When I high kicked him and it missed, my leg grabbed on the rope, so he had enough time to try to take me down. This was the only reason; he'd never shoot for a takedown if I didn't have my leg on the ropes.
Denis: Did you fear a disqualification due to that elbow?
Calvancante: I was relaxed that this would not happen. The main problem was that apprehension inside the ring. They told me the time for a possible recovery was three minutes. Twelve minutes ran by, and nobody came with a decision for me. My mind was in high expectation because this is hard for you to keep concentration, keep yourself warmed up without any guarantee that the opponent will return and fight. During that time I can't tell you about my feeling because it was a mix of waiting and confusion. So when they announced the no contest, I knew they would not turn it into a DQ against me.
Denis: Inside the ring you went to apologize to him. Even though you don't speak Japanese, did he accept your words?
Calvancante: I think he accepted. I wanted to talk to him. He wanted to come back and fight. He knows I didn't land those elbows intentionally. That situation of whether he'll return to fight or not was an upset. I mean, talking about me, if that happened to me, in three minutes I'd say I wouldn't fight again, that I was hurt. To stay trying to return when you know you can't sounds weird to me. I don't know if he couldn't think on this or not.
Denis: So the situation overall was unnecessary?
Calvancante: Sure. Not only by Aoki's side but by the promotion's side. I think this was a lack of respect to me. They left me without knowing what would happen and didn't set that up when they could. The stipulated time is three minutes. He didn't [continue], so let's decide. The three minutes passed, nobody said anything, so they gave 10, and it left the impression that he could fight again. While this was happening, I had to keep myself ready also. When the three minutes passed and I didn't have any word from them, I started imagining a disqualification. Or what the hell are they thinking? Are they thinking of something? Aoki will fight again, won't he? These are only a few questions I had in mind, inside a ring where I was to fight. You can imagine my feeling. They just announced what would be official 18 minutes later.
Denis: Could you understand his game better through the no contest than when you prepared only watching his fights?
Calvancante: I couldn't because we didn't have time to fight on the ground. His game didn't fit into that fight. I didn't focus the way you asked me. I'm facing a different fight. I know he's the same fighter and where he's better, but I have other priorities. This takes the same road of a rematch -- things need to be done differently. The same way I felt or didn't feel him, he got the same from me. New things can happen. New strategies are being expected in the opportunities of this fight. So I'm considering a new fight, where he can show new weapons, and I'll do the same on my side, with the best strategy possible.
Denis: Was this fight against Aoki surrounded by more expectation than the others you had in Japan against national idols?
Calvancante: Caol Uno (Pictures)'s fight in 2006 had a good expectation, but Aoki brought Pride fans to cheer for him in addition with Hero's fans. Plus Aoki is coming off nine consecutive victories and is one of the best lightweights in the world. But that K-1 Max contest against Masato was much more talked about and anticipated than the Aoki one.
Denis: After the accident of the first meeting, do you think this JZ-Aoki fight has many ingredients to become a historical lightweight collision? The expectation is biggest now?
Calvancante: I think everybody thinks like that -- mainly me, who wants to give a conclusion to this episode. I don't mean an ultimate end; I mean an outcome for the fight. So after that we can write other pages of this composition.
Denis: So do you see this fight like a composition?
Calvancante: Hypothetically, we only saw commas in the first. We need to close the first paragraph to start a new composition and another opportunity. You see, the first paragraph was in December. No fight happened, and when it did [in March], no outcome. So now this is the time for the final dot on the first JZ-Aoki paragraph.
Denis: Do or die time is April 29th?
Calvancante: Not at all, but I'm more than prepared and ready for everything.
Martins Denis: The first time I called you for this interview it was 10:00 a.m., and you told me to call back around 10:00 p.m. Twelve hours passed, so did you have a huge training routine throughout the day?
Gesias Calvancante (Pictures): Basically we're in a pace of several trainings into two different periods -- morning and evening -- and every holy day is the same routine. We diversified the style with muay Thai, a ground game and tonight we did a specific punching bag workout. It is always like this, but with variations.
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Calvancante: This is a little funny because a few times you get a rest, but it doesn't matter how long it is. You feel a little tired. But, you know, we're in a high-level sport now, so the professionalism of American Top Team is demanding and we're going to our limits to reach the peak in our preparation. This makes us confident on the job because this is working. So we train in the morning, get a rest, go to lunch. Because of that, I told you to call me at the end of the day because we don't have time in the intervals to do other things. Now I'd be sleeping for the following day, but you hung me up. This pace increases when we're close to a fight, and for me this is wonderful because for whoever does what he loves, he's in the right place. To deal with this is easy!
Denis: Since December 2007 you've been on a very uncommon schedule. First you were supposed to fight Shinya Aoki (Pictures) on New Year's Eve, and then the fight was booked for March and then the outcome forced you two to fight again in April. After that, if you win, you'll fight again in a short period of time. How is your preparation with this different situation?
Calvancante: We work over the fight schedule, so our agenda works with whatever changes or we keep it the same. The human being is adaptable. When we see ourselves in a situation like I'm in now, we're capable of changing the first program -- focusing on the strong points and minimizing the possible weaknesses inside this schedule's change. So we're always being evaluated if an unexpected situation arises. And this is not tough because we're working with top fighters and coaches, and the union between us is making the family work for each individual member of ATT and on behalf of the team itself.
The union in that situation is important. We join all opinions. We
combine the strengths of everyone to help. You can see here the
team is special. I mean, I'm going to fight, so train and fight and
I'll only return to tough training with the group when another
fight is scheduled? No, that doesn't happen at ATT. You fight, you
return to the academy to support another fighter who's going to
fight too. Of course there are exceptions for injuries and stuff
like that. Otherwise we're supporting each other always.
Denis: Do these changes also affect the human being Gesias Calvancante (Pictures), not only the fighter? Because I know you like to eat everything you can when you don't have a fight. I remember you around 200 pounds when you didn't fight between October 2006 and June 2007. So how do you deal with your diet when changes happen?
Calvancante: [Laughs] Hey, aren't you exaggerating at saying I weighed 200 pounds? I was overweight but not 200 pounds. But as you said, I like to eat everything, but my mother's food is natural, healthy and delicious. My woman is here with me and she's in the same category as my mother with organic and macrobiotic food. So I don't feel bad for only eating this type of food, like salad, integral beans.
Denis: Since your fight against Aoki in March, you were interviewed several times. Which specific question bothered you most?
Calvancante: Hold on, I need to think. There were a lot of them that bothered me. This always happens. A few times I think people don't think much before asking, but no doubt the questions that bothered me a lot were regarding Aoki. What did I think about what he felt, about what he did? Damn! If you want to know about Aoki, go ask him, not me [laughs]. There are others, but this particular one irritated me. I can't talk as Aoki -- I'm not him and I can't judge him. Ask about me, so I can answer.
Denis: So why did you land an elbow to the back of his head? [Laughs]
Calvancante: Are you kidding me!
Denis: Yep! But what did you hear about this fact?
Calvancante: They asked me why I did elbow him. This was because it was one of my weapons in the Dream rules, so of course I'd land them. Accidents happen. This is the same when someone shoots and you land a knee. In a few cases, the adversary has his knees on the ground and this becomes illegal but not intentional. If I have this opportunity again, I'll do it.
Denis: Were these elbows a new rule for you in Dream?
Calvancante: If I'm not wrong, Hero's had them too.
Denis: We have several different rules in MMA. Particularly each continent has rules. On a lot of occasions, this is a misunderstanding not only for the fans but also for the fighters who don't have the rules clearly in their minds. Do you support the universal rules? What kind?
Calvancante: Talking like a fighter, the universal rules would be better for the sport of MMA. We talk about people who don't understand [very well] and are expecting different rules of a show that they are watching. So one show allows elbows, and others don't. You can stomp in one, and in others you can't. Talking in world's terms of growth of the sport MMA, this is an obstacle. The standard of rules is good for training also because there's no world-class team with all of its fighters in the same promotion. When you're used to fighting in Japan and then have a fight in North America, the styles are different. You can confuse the fight's aspect if you don't prepare properly. But if you focus, I guess you can adapt yourself well.
Denis: Fans said you reduced your traditional aggressive style and changed into a cautious one against Aoki. What do you have to say?
Calvancante: In fact it was, well ? what I did discover, and this was what we said with the team after the fight, was that this was the first time I fought the first round of 10 minutes, so I kept a reasonably slow pace, letting the fight flow. Plus Aoki walked back during the fight, so this harms your strategy because until you reach the combat distance, he's taller than me. It takes time. The ground and pound is different too, when you take a fighter down and when he pulls you into his guard. If I have to fight on the ground, I will. If I have to fight standing and exchanging clinches/grips for takedowns, I will also. The fight was like I wanted, not like he'd like.
Denis: Once the fight hit the ground, you connected with a good punch but didn't keep the pressure. Even though you told me you can fight everywhere, it seemed you didn't want to fight on the ground.
Calvancante: I didn't feel that was the moment to fight on the ground due to the 10-minute round. When I landed that punch, I was careful of an up-kick from him. But when I watched the tape, I realized I could have stayed imposing the ground and pound from that position. But this was only after I saw the fight. Anyway this was in my pace, doing what I wanted.
Denis: You watched the fight and saw when you could keep in his guard, punching. But what about that high kick that missed and he shot for a takedown? Was that a mistake?
Calvancante: When I high kicked him and it missed, my leg grabbed on the rope, so he had enough time to try to take me down. This was the only reason; he'd never shoot for a takedown if I didn't have my leg on the ropes.
Denis: Did you fear a disqualification due to that elbow?
Calvancante: I was relaxed that this would not happen. The main problem was that apprehension inside the ring. They told me the time for a possible recovery was three minutes. Twelve minutes ran by, and nobody came with a decision for me. My mind was in high expectation because this is hard for you to keep concentration, keep yourself warmed up without any guarantee that the opponent will return and fight. During that time I can't tell you about my feeling because it was a mix of waiting and confusion. So when they announced the no contest, I knew they would not turn it into a DQ against me.
Denis: Inside the ring you went to apologize to him. Even though you don't speak Japanese, did he accept your words?
Calvancante: I think he accepted. I wanted to talk to him. He wanted to come back and fight. He knows I didn't land those elbows intentionally. That situation of whether he'll return to fight or not was an upset. I mean, talking about me, if that happened to me, in three minutes I'd say I wouldn't fight again, that I was hurt. To stay trying to return when you know you can't sounds weird to me. I don't know if he couldn't think on this or not.
Denis: So the situation overall was unnecessary?
Calvancante: Sure. Not only by Aoki's side but by the promotion's side. I think this was a lack of respect to me. They left me without knowing what would happen and didn't set that up when they could. The stipulated time is three minutes. He didn't [continue], so let's decide. The three minutes passed, nobody said anything, so they gave 10, and it left the impression that he could fight again. While this was happening, I had to keep myself ready also. When the three minutes passed and I didn't have any word from them, I started imagining a disqualification. Or what the hell are they thinking? Are they thinking of something? Aoki will fight again, won't he? These are only a few questions I had in mind, inside a ring where I was to fight. You can imagine my feeling. They just announced what would be official 18 minutes later.
Denis: Could you understand his game better through the no contest than when you prepared only watching his fights?
Calvancante: I couldn't because we didn't have time to fight on the ground. His game didn't fit into that fight. I didn't focus the way you asked me. I'm facing a different fight. I know he's the same fighter and where he's better, but I have other priorities. This takes the same road of a rematch -- things need to be done differently. The same way I felt or didn't feel him, he got the same from me. New things can happen. New strategies are being expected in the opportunities of this fight. So I'm considering a new fight, where he can show new weapons, and I'll do the same on my side, with the best strategy possible.
Denis: Was this fight against Aoki surrounded by more expectation than the others you had in Japan against national idols?
Calvancante: Caol Uno (Pictures)'s fight in 2006 had a good expectation, but Aoki brought Pride fans to cheer for him in addition with Hero's fans. Plus Aoki is coming off nine consecutive victories and is one of the best lightweights in the world. But that K-1 Max contest against Masato was much more talked about and anticipated than the Aoki one.
Denis: After the accident of the first meeting, do you think this JZ-Aoki fight has many ingredients to become a historical lightweight collision? The expectation is biggest now?
Calvancante: I think everybody thinks like that -- mainly me, who wants to give a conclusion to this episode. I don't mean an ultimate end; I mean an outcome for the fight. So after that we can write other pages of this composition.
Denis: So do you see this fight like a composition?
Calvancante: Hypothetically, we only saw commas in the first. We need to close the first paragraph to start a new composition and another opportunity. You see, the first paragraph was in December. No fight happened, and when it did [in March], no outcome. So now this is the time for the final dot on the first JZ-Aoki paragraph.
Denis: Do or die time is April 29th?
Calvancante: Not at all, but I'm more than prepared and ready for everything.
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